dead

AUGH (or: frustrated SPN meta-ish thoughts)

Why why why Why WHY do I keep allowing myself to be lured in by meta on Tumblr???? It never ever ends well, but I keep allowing it to happen. You know how Snow White in the original story keeps getting tricked by her stepmother over and over again? That's me. Only with less death-like sleep and more temptation to throw things.

Okay. Deep breaths here. *exhales slowly*

Right. Because I absolutely refuse to start down the path of Tumblr arguments (I've seen it; it literally ain't pretty), here are some unorganized thoughts in response to a couple of different negative meta conversations I stumbled across in the space of about an hour and a half. Which I'm not going to post anywhere but here, where only about 4 people will read it. I wouldn't do even this, but I suspect the only way to stop dwelling on the thing is to get it down in writing and then more or less walk away.

Here goes.

- The first thing to remember--the most important thing to remember--is that Sam and Dean love each other. They love each other more deeply than many of us will probably ever experience. They have both forgiven each other multiple times, explicitly and implicitly on the show. They have both deliberately chosen to stay together, and we see this affirmed (again, multiple times) in both word and deed on the show. Although they both occasionally dream about the lives they might have had if heaven and hell hadn't conspired to turn them into the meatsuits for the apocalyptic grudge-match, they're both happy in the life they're living. Again, this is all canonical.

We all on the same page here? (All five of us?) Okay, then.

- THEY WERE BOTH SUPER-SCREWED UP IN SEASON 5. Seriously screwed up. In the run of episodes prior to "Dark Side of the Moon", they had: a) lost Ellen and Jo, b) nearly gone crazy, c) had Sam's body stolen, d) time-traveled back in time and attempted to convince their parents to prevent their births in order to prevent the apocalypse, e) Dean was told he was essentially dead inside and Sam semi-involuntarily fell off the demon-blood wagon, and f) watched their surrogate father figure go through the pain of having to kill his beloved wife a second time. And then h) they got shot by a couple of guys who blamed them for everything going wrong and didn't care that they were trying to fix things.

Given all this, it's completely understandable that Dean's memories on the axis mundi consist of times he was able to provide comfort and joy to his family, or that Sam's consist of times when he was able to just be a regular person, away from the family that was tailor-made to enable the apocalypse. And understandable again that Dean would then interpret that as a rejection of him personally. It would be mind-boggling if it didn't fall out like that.

- Dean was not being abusive towards Sam or whatever (I refuse to go back and reread that piece of meta for the exact phrasing because I really shouldn't do that to my blood pressure) by wanting to linger in his memory of Mary after hurrying Sam away from his own memories--she was Sam's mother too, and he shows interest in seeing Dean in that context. It's not Dean rubbing Sam's nose in what he didn't have growing up. C'mon.

- In season 11, we see that Sam knows he has (had! he's grown past that now) a tendency to run away from problems. Um. That fit in somehow, but I don't remember exactly. So we'll just keep moving.

- Given the portrait of the family we see in the pilot, I don't think we should take the glimpse we see of Dean's childhood in "Dark Side of the Moon" and extrapolate out that his family environment was toxic. Families go through rough patches, and parents are human. A single instance of Mary not reacting in a textbook-perfect manner doesn't mean she wasn't a loving and capable mother. Simply that she wasn't the perfect saint Dean's painted her as in his need to hold onto her and what she represented.

- Jumping ahead a bit: oh, hey! I actually don't remember what the second piece of meta that so bugged me was. Chalk this up as at least partially successful, then. :D

- Something to do with season 8, I suspect, and Sam's lack of explanation for why he didn't turn the world inside-out in order to get Dean out of purgatory. I never felt the need for more than what we got, because I always knew why (and this is somewhat confirmed by what's said in season 11): shame. He couldn't defend himself to Dean because he couldn't defend himself to himself. He knew, secretly, ashamedly, that he could have done more, and so felt Dean was right to feel like Sam abandoned him. Because this is the way I work a lot of the time: even when people praise me for something, I know I could have done more, done better. When someone chastises me, I wind up kind of wanting to gut myself, because I know they don't know just how right they really are.

Granted, some of this is me reading myself into the character, but I don't think it disagrees with what we get in canon. But it's why I've always felt somewhat alienated by the insistence that the writers dropped the ball on that storyline--for me, it was handled in a beautifully subtle manner. (The Amelia flashbacks were awkward, though. I freely admit that. I wonder if in retrospect the writing room regrets not going with Robbie's suggestion of compressing all the flashbacks into a single laundromat episode. If nothing else, the boys in boxers probably would have provided enough distraction to keep fandom from complaining quite as much.)

- Finally, I think my main frustration with fandom (on Tumblr, at least) comes from two things: a) this deep tendency to treat the writers and especially the showrunners as though they don't care about the characters and show, rather than acknowledging the possibility that they might simply have a different understanding/endgame. It's so arrogant--some of these people have been involved since the beginning, or the very early seasons. When you compare the writing with that of other shows running as long, it simply boggles the mind: the consistency in the characters, the continued maturing and deepening of the characters and their relationships, the overall attention to detail. Yes, there are discrepancies, but they're almost always either single details that are easily lost in the course of 230+ episodes, or are the tweaks to existing lore that we've gotten almost from the very beginning of the show--the things that are inevitable for a show being written as a continuing story assembled as it goes, rather than as a single story planned from the beginning.

And b) this inability to let things go after years. The doctored voicemail from season 4, the samulet from season 5, Dean's decision at the beginning of season 9, demon!Dean's everything from 10.03, and other stuff I can't think of at the moment--these are all things the characters have long since moved past, and yet fandom goes back and dwells on them, obsesses, assigns blame, holds grudges over. Honestly, if you want to talk about unhealthy relationships, I think it's that one, not Sam and Dean's, that's messed up. What happened to the idea of forgiveness? Or of generosity? If you claim you love something, why can't you overlook its blemishes and dwell on its (overwhelming) good features? If a character loves and forgives another character, why aren't you willing to do the same?

- All this to say, I kind of feel like the more I watch the show and love it, the more I become alienated and isolated from that which supposedly should help me enjoy it more. Which is not new, but every now and then I can't help but express my (mild) frustration over this. But let me also express my great appreciation for those of you who are willing to celebrate the show with me, to go all schmoopy over the lovely bits and shrug over the things that don't quite succeed--and then move on to the next lovely bit, because there are so many of those it really is astonishing at times. And I, for one, would rather revel in the beauty than dwell in disappointment.

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  • It's raining, it's pouring

    thebratfarrar.tumblr.com/random secretlyrembrandt.wordpress.com

  • OH YES

    So, funny thing-- zmediaoutlet and I have just been working on a scene for Evil That Walks Invisible which involves drycleaning. I am so delighted…

  • Randomosity

    thebratfarrar.tumblr.com/random secretlyrembrandt.wordpress.com

When will you learn! lol! Meta has it's place and sometimes can be bang on the money, or spawn fabulous fic, but a lot of the time it's wank wrapped up in intelligence!
tl;dr
I know! Maybe this time I've actually learned my lesson. We'll see.

My problem, I think, is that I want to actually discuss the episodes as they air. I can get a little bit of that over at the Sheila Variations, but even there (more on the recent episodes, less so on her epic early-season analyses) the comments still sometimes turn into liked/disliked commentary. And that really doesn't interest me--I want to examine what the writers/directors are doing, and how it all fits together. Which can be difficult to do while the season is still running, but perhaps that's what hellatus is actually for.... :P

I've been participating in a brilliant online weekly discussion of Dracula, and one of the things I greatly appreciate about the guy running things is that he approaches both book and author with such respect--and so picks up on some amazing nuances. He actually spent almost 20 minutes at the beginning of one session explaining why it's so valuable to come to stories (whatever medium) without assumptions/preconceptions--which I was reminded of today while listening to a usually positive SPN podcast. And all of the problems they had with the latest episode were basically because they wanted it to be a different story than it was. (And to be fair to them, they acknowledged that it was well done in every regard--they just scored it low because it wasn't what they wanted it to be.) And the whole way through I found myself saying, "You're missing so much because you're not actually watching the episode." (Seriously, the one guy spent almost the entire time talking about what he thought the writers could/should have done instead--barely even touching on the episode itself. Not at all their usual approach--I was really surprised by it.)

All that to say, I really wish I had something similar to the Dracula discussion for SPN, even though it would take FOREVER. Because I think the story and production deserves that kind of respect and consideration. And I think that's why I keep getting suckered in by the (mostly Tumblr) meta--I'm ever hopeful that it already exists somewhere and I can find it.

Huh. Maybe a better analogy than Snow White would be Charlie Brown, Lucy, and the eternally-yanked-away football. (Although that might be very America-specific. Do you have Peanuts in the UK? )
Re: tl;dr
Meta has it's place hun, and I'm lucky on my flist, there are some wonderful people who really DO get into it and spend time analysing and chatting about it, some of it has spawned some truly epic headcanon for me, but you know, sometimes it is just wank wrapped up in intelligent speech!
Re: tl;dr
sometimes it is just wank wrapped up in intelligent speech!
Very true! I think I've almost learned this bitter lesson. ;P
Re: tl;dr
*sigh*

I know. It just feels like I keep getting sucker-punched! It's like what Jensen and Jared were saying recently about how a single negative comment can spoil all the positive ones.
Re: tl;dr
Don't let it. There's so much positive around here, you get negative everywhere but the good outweighs the bad!
Re: tl;dr
True enough, and I do mostly manage to keep that mindset--just sometimes it takes a little while to shake things off.
I love the show and am glad it is on British TV again, albeit we are a year behind !
Good for you! I loved season 10 very much--there are a couple of episodes that are emotionally difficult to watch, but it's very solid, and for the most part a lot of fun. In an angsty sort of way at times. :P

And beautiful! There are some really gorgeously-directed episodes.
I love the Snow White comparison, though personally I've always compared my relationship with Tumblr discussions to Sam's demon blood relapses. I don't want to get involved, I know it isn't good for me - and yet I succumb to it again and again. *shakes fist at self*

What boggles my mind about the 5x16 discussion which I assume you're referring to is that
a) Why on earth would you even design a quiz to test if you love both brothers equally and base it on that episode of all things? Can't we just love the guys WITHOUT constantly comparing them? (After 11x16 I saw a post about how the adorable cuddling scene showed what a superior human being Sam is, because he wasn't just taking care of Dean the way Dean has taken care of him in similar scenes, no, he knows what possession feels like and therefore makes sure to ground Dean back in reality the way Dean never did it for him... or something like that!!! *argh*)
b) Why would you base it on a random episode that's five/six? years old? Sam and Dean have developed so much since then, why are we still arguing about it like that's the status quo?

I completely agree with you that most people disregard the circumstances surrounding Sam and Dean's memories (If I might just add one thing: Passive-aggressive Cas not being any real help, letting Sam and Dean shoulder most of the weight of the dooming apocalypse even though he played a large part in bringing it about, preferring to search for God...). Likewise, I wish that people would be able to let things go. It strikes me as almost comically bizarre that Sam's fans for instance praise him for being so kind and forgiving and not holding grudges for years and years, while at the same time they're still highly indignant on his behalf at events that happened two, five, ten years ago.

[Obviously you don't need to agree with my reading of the character, but I would just like to point out that my critcism of Mary and the atmosphere Dean grew up in isn't solely based on the scene from 5x16.]

Similarly, I hate it when people automatically assume that the present team of writers are idiots who don't care about the show and the characters. (And that of course everyone who still enjoys the show must be an idiot too.) Yesterday, I saw the lengthy reply to a comment I'd made on one of the recent con tweets re: Dean's behaviour in 10x22, and it upset me for the rest of the day. I didn't want to get involved in an argument, but at the same time I didn't want to let it stand either, because no one else ever seems to stand up for the last couple of seasons... Okay, actually I'm still upset about it this morning. This is what Tumblr does to me. This is why I don't discuss episodes in public.

Why can't I just stay away from it all???
[Obviously you don't need to agree with my reading of the character, but I would just like to point out that my critcism of Mary and the atmosphere Dean grew up in isn't solely based on the scene from 5x16.]

Fair enough--and I would expect that you'd be basing it on more than a single, out-of-context scene. I was simply responding to that single thread on Tumblr that kind of smacked me in the face and then wouldn't get out of my brain.

Though it's mostly out now, hurrah! Sometimes venting a little does seem to work. :D
I've always compared my relationship with Tumblr discussions to Sam's demon blood relapses.

Ooh, yes--that's an even better analogy. I like that.

Why on earth would you even design a quiz to test if you love both brothers equally and base it on that episode of all things? Can't we just love the guys WITHOUT constantly comparing them?

I know! Or keeping grudges on their behalf when they've clearly forgiven each other. When the whole point of the show is that they always eventually forgive each other. C'mon, people.

Why would you base it on a random episode that's five/six? years old? Sam and Dean have developed so much since then, why are we still arguing about it like that's the status quo?

Yes! Exactly!!! That's one of the things I love about the show: that despite all the consistency, there's still change, and their relationship absolutely ain't what it was in season 5. At all.

It strikes me as almost comically bizarre that Sam's fans for instance praise him for being so kind and forgiving and not holding grudges for years and years, while at the same time they're still highly indignant on his behalf at events that happened two, five, ten years ago.

*nods emphatically*

Yesterday, I saw the lengthy reply to a comment I'd made on one of the recent con tweets re: Dean's behaviour in 10x22, and it upset me for the rest of the day. I didn't want to get involved in an argument, but at the same time I didn't want to let it stand either, because no one else ever seems to stand up for the last couple of seasons.

I'm sorry to hear that! What makes it even more sad is that Jared and Jensen just commented on this: on how a single negative response can emotionally obliterate all the positive ones. And yet people just keep doing it to their "fellow" fans.

This is why I don't discuss episodes in public.

Yeah--there's so little willingness to consider the ideas and opinions of others. That's why my main tumblr is strictly screen caps, without any sort of commentary on them, and why my reblog tumblr doesn't get used much. I could delete that one without flinching, if something did explode on me there.

Why can't I just stay away from it all???

The pretty pictures and gifs, alas! *sighs resignedly*
Hating on the show writers has become a pet peeve of mine. I mean, there are shows and/or storylines where it's painfully obvious that such frustrations are justified. But other times it comes across as little more than people pouting because they didn't get exactly what they wanted, even though what they did get was still a good, viable story that was well made. Instead of having the mindset of "I didn't like that episode because it wasn't my cup of tea," they instead think "I didn't like that episode, therefore there was something wrong with it and it's all the writer's fault."
But other times it comes across as little more than people pouting because they didn't get exactly what they wanted, even though what they did get was still a good, viable story that was well made. Instead of having the mindset of "I didn't like that episode because it wasn't my cup of tea," they instead think "I didn't like that episode, therefore there was something wrong with it and it's all the writer's fault."

Yes--exactly! Just because something doesn't suit your tastes, doesn't mean it's bad.

Glad to know I'm not the only one fed up with this sense of entitlement from certain portions of fandom. *hugs*